Using SAM Path with LMS integration question ?

[AngieRudd]

Using SAM Path with LMS integration.

I have a path set as PRE Exam, Training (only on missed tasks from PRE Exam), POST Exam (only on missed tasks from POST Exam).

On the LMS integration I chose the one link for Cumulative score because I want the assignment graded on the POST Exam grade (or the PRE Exam grade IF POST is not taken or student gets a 100).  This way also only puts one assignment grade in the LMS gradebook instead of 3 separate ones(1 for each path).

So my problem is this:
Student clicks link from LMS to go to SAM Path.  Path open and places them in the PRE Exam.  Student takes PRE Exam and it submits AND SAM stops!. 

Student has to close window go back to LMS click the SAME path link again to get launched into Step 2 of the path (Training).  Student again completes Training and Submits AND SAM stops!

Student has to close window go back to LMS click the SAME path link again to get launched into Step 3 of the path (POST exam). 

This is a bit “clunky” and students don’t know what step they are on.  It seems to me there should be a NEXT option on the screen so student can progress without having to close a window and Launch back into the program.

I have gone through support and am told that’s the way it’s supposed to work and they completed an Enhancement request.

So is anybody else out there using the Path with LMS integration?  Am I doing something wrong in my setup?  Is there a work around?

I really want to use the Path as it has great educational value and moves us closer to personalized learning for our students but the chunkiness is a big problem.  Students do part 1 of the path and think there done because of the functionality of having to close and go back to the LMS.

[Danielle_Klahr]

@AngieRudd thank you for your question! I'm not certain of the best way to handle this, so I'm going to check in with our product team to see if I can get some answers for you. 

@Kelly_Hinson , do you use SAM Paths?

[Sandy_Keeter]

I don’t currently have Sam paths  integrated in Canvas but it is something I’ve used before and I have used paths in MindTap and it worked fine. I feel like students were prompted with the pop up with their score and whether they wanted to continue with the path.

Let me do some digging around and see what I can find! 

[Danielle_Klahr]

Thank you @Sandy_Keeter ! I didn't know if you had used paths with MindTap. Appreciate your help as always!

[Kelly_Hinson]

Hello Danielle!

Angie and I work in offices next to each other.  I do not use SAM path in Intro to Computing because we have so much material that it just does not fit. I hope later today Angie will have screen shots to show you what her students are experiencing at another school with the SAM path. 

I think we might try to build in in a  Blackboard course just to see how that looks.

[ChristineOgin]

What LMS are you using? I have this setup with a blackboard integration and after submitting the pretest, the training automatically launches. After the training, the post test for the missed. I have only tested this using Google Chrome as the browser.

[Danielle_Klahr]

@ChristineOgin thank you for your help!

[Kelly_Hinson]

I just pulled a cumulative SAM path into Blackboard and from what I see, it works just like Angie says. The next step does not automatically launch nor is the student given the opportunity to continue. Now I am not exactly in a "student" mode because of access limitations. It could be students see something a little different. I'm going to see if I can get a code so I can test this out further.

My thought is that it should look like the new project workflow for students.

[Sandy_Keeter]

I just pulled a SAM path into Canvas and tested it as a student. If students go through every task and it submits automatically, it appears to move to the next part of the path successfully, but otherwise you have to go back to Canvas to re-launch. It might also make a difference if options are changed (ie: number of tries, password, time, grade settings, etc), but I did not test it any further. Hope this helps!

[Kelly_Hinson]

Sandy,

Are you seeing what Angie sees? She is not using Mindtap - just integration.

[Sandy_Keeter]

Yes @Kelly_Hinson - If I end or submit the pre-test without trying/completing each task, it does exactly as @AngieRudd says.

[Kelly_Hinson]

Then that's a problem in the work flow. Students should be able to submit without answering anything. Then they need an option to continue to the next step. They should never go automatically because they might not have the time.

[Sandy_Keeter]

It's been awhile since I've used Paths in my SAM LMS course so I'm glad Angie uncovered this issue! Instead of Paths, we have optional training for students to practice before exams.

[AngieRudd]

Hi Sandy,

I tried answering 1 exam question and submitting and I still get the same results.

[AngieRudd]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I am using Canvas as my LMS and Chrome as the browser.

When I view the Path as an Instructor I see this:

When I link over as a student it starts with this screen:

When I complete the Pre Test and submit (I submitted without answering any questions so I should have a 0 and launch into Training on all tasks).

This is the screen I get after Pre-Test Submission

It doesn’t go to Training ….it just stops and you have to close the window and come back in through the LMS to start the training.  This is where the student thinks they are done with the path.  The screen needs a Next button or a message.

[ChristineOgin]

I wonder if the difference is the setting " Display Results at end of Exam"? I get the pretest instructions, after submitting, they receive a results screen. Clicking close to the results automatically brings up the training instructions.

[Kelly_Hinson]

I'm wondering if it has to do with whether or not you complete the exam. If you just decide to quit, and then the score displays, it still does not advance. And again, I'm not sure it should automatically advance. I think students should click a button to choose to continue to the next step.

[ChristineOgin]

In my environment (Blackboard & Chrome) no answers need to be submitted. This is my setup for the SAM Path.

[AngieRudd]

Hi Christine,

I just checked this as well and I have Display results at end selected.

[Sandy_Keeter]

I think @Danielle_Klahr needs to get us on a zoom with the SAM team to discuss this..

[AngieRudd]

My settings:

[ChristineOgin]

One more thought... are integrating with only SAM or with MindTap and using SAM through MindTap. We are actually integrated with MindTap and that might be the difference.

[Sandy_Keeter]

@ChristineOgin This seems to be a SAM integrated integrated issue with paths; not SAM in MT integrated which seems to work!

[Danielle_Klahr]

Thank you all for your responses and willingness to help a fellow instructor! I received an initial response from the product team and am digging for more info and a possible workaround.

"This is currently as designed. SAM Path, while one assignment, is composed of 3 separate, individual components. We do have an enhancement request to make this more usable, particularly in LMS integrated."

[Kelly_Hinson]

I hope this will be fixed as this is a great feature to go along with individual learning paths for students.

[AngieRudd]

OK …I am back at this question again.

I am testing with using the Learning Path with Mindtap LMS integrated for next Fall.

I have it setup with one link to the Learning Path.

I go through the Pre Test and Submit and am taken directly to training.  (which is the goal) YAY

Now what if I want to delete an attempt on the Pre-Test?  How do I get in the Mindtap to do that?

In SAM I would go to the assignment and choose reset and be given the option?

Second Question…In the Learning Path (Pre Test, Training, Post Test)

Is there a way for a student to progress onto the Post Test without completing all the training tasks?

[Sandy_Keeter]

Click on the SAM app in MindTap and you can reset attempts there.

Perhaps a student can click SUBMIT on training to advance to post test, without completing all tasks, but if you want a score for it, my experience is that all tasks must be complete in training or a score won't sync to your LMS.  If you are only concerned with final post test score then you might be ok!

[AngieRudd]

Thanks @Sandy_Keeter I didn't know about that SAM button in Mindtap

On the training question.

Students cannot click on the Submit in the Training.  That is the problem.  They can't advance to the Post Test UNLESS they complete all tasks in the training.  Normally I want them to complete all tasks but we ran into a couple of tasks this semester that we couldn't get some students to pass through and it appeared they were doing all the steps correctly.  I think it is probably a computer setting on the student end but...it would have been nice if they could submit the training and move on.  As a result they could never progress to the post test which is where the grade for the LP is based.

[Sandy_Keeter]

I was not aware that the submit button was not available in SAM paths for training...  I'll have to look again or is that just in MT?

[AngieRudd]

There is a submit button but you can’t submit until all tasks are completed.